Tuesday Mailbag: Draft decisions, Will Hill and tight ends

John Fennelly, Lead Writer

The Giants have only one draft choice left to sign – third rounder DT Jay Bromley of Syracuse – so not a lot of unfinished business to attend to these days.

Will HillHere are some questions sent in that I will attempt to answer for you this morning…


What is the story with Will Hill? Is the league going to suspend him or not?

Good question. There is no word on whether the NFL plans on suspending Hill. He reportedly failed another drug test over the offseason. He has maintained his innocence and the Giants have stated no decisions will be made on Hill’s future with the team until the league acts and the subsequent appeal process is completed.

Hill has admitted that he enjoys smoking marijuana and is a user. The league, however, is revisiting their draconian policy towards marijuana use. The main reason being the legalization of pot in two states where they have franchises (Colorado and Washington). Any adjustment to the policy won’t help Hill unless his case is grandfathered in.

He is set to earn $570k this season with no guaranteed money attached. He will be a restricted free agent next season should the Giants keep him. He will be an unrestricted free agent if they release him.


Why didn’t the Giants make some moves in the NFL Draft? It was so deep, they could have traded back and got more players.

The Giants could have formed a competitive roster out of the players they had without going to the draft table. Not that they would have, but after signing 16 veteran free agents this offseason, there are only a handful of jobs open right now, so a slew of rookies invading their camp was not on the agenda. They decided to hold onto their picks and select top players on their board in the windows in which they selected. It is not known if Jerry Reese was ever presented with an opportunity to move, whether it be to trade up or back.

In short, the Giants were looking for quality over quantity. And not just quality players, but quality people as well. They wanted stand-up guys, locker room and community leaders. Players that can come in and make the jump to the NFL right away.

USATSI_7700648_110579513_lowresIn Round One, The Giants felt Odell Beckham was the best player available for them. Now that we know Mario Manningham is less than 100%, this choice makes sense. What also makes sense is that Beckham is a high-character kid, which was the team’s major theme with this year’s rookie crop. They could have taken Pitt’s Aaron Donald or Notre Dame’s Zack Martin, but they had Beckham rated higher.

What many Giant fans and followers do not understand about the Giants’ draft process is that they do not follow the rankings that fans follow. They have their own board and it is based on their own personal recon and research. They also interview and vet each player. It’s not all about numbers. If they don’t like a kid, they won’t take him regardless of what pundits think.

For those who feel the Giants could have drafted better, answer me this: Who’s rankings are you using and what first-hand research have you done to make your determination?


Are the Giants done looking for a veteran tight end?

The Giants are never done. Reese always keeps his options open. The Jermichael Finley situation is ongoing, but he still has not gotten medical clearance on his neck. Green Bay coach Mike McCarthy has intimated the Packers would like Finley back if and when he’s cleared. Dustin Keller’s knee is said to be healed, but it’s buyer beware. Keller is just eight months out from a triple ligament tears in his knee. The Patriots have shown interest in Keller, but he left his last vivid there without a contract.

Former Giant Travis Beckum was released by the Seahawks yesterday. The Giants may take a look, but I think they’re done with him.

It is more likely the Giants are going to have to solve this in-house. They have five TEs on the roster and will hold an open competition to find the right combination.




26 comments
04doctored14
04doctored14

I expected big things this year re: NYG draft--very disappointed; not going to win many football games limiting your picks to boy scouts, team captains and the annual REACHING for Syracuse talent --no doubt related to TC.s ties to this college.  Ironically, the one time JR traded up in 2013, it was for the clipboard holder Nassib.  Teams like SF and Seattle move up and down the draft board targeting specific talent with excellent results--JR and Ross sit tight continually reaching for obscure talent such as this yrs. 3rd, 5th and 6th round picks.  Finally, the LT mess and TE situation are still unresolved.  Reese will never admit  that the "JPP of tight ends" was another big miss--why not take a chance on a Colt Lyeria who has big time talent compared to the present pathetic group of TE's that are on the roster.

Michael Stewart
Michael Stewart

"For those who feel the Giants could have drafted better, answer me this: Who’s rankings are you using and what first-hand research have you done to make your determination?"

John,

Like you, I write for a website that covers football (I cover the Giants) I can only speak for myself here so when I state that I have seen ratings and/or rankings of prospects; this is not just from one or a few resources.. I'm referring to over a 100 different resources over a long period of time that I gather as much information as I can along with viewing many hours of highlights of prospects that are considered targets. My information is also from reading column's and articles from respectable football guru's who cover the NFL extensively and have a good track record. Like yourself, I need to do my homework as efficiently as possible to maintain creditability. Like my colleagues (like yourself) we are not always 100% correct. Through all the reports and commentary I have heard or read; Reese did not make any attempt of trading back at all.  Let me state for the record that this Draft was not a bad draft by Reese, but he could have made it special.  

Phil Bellino
Phil Bellino

The point is that just because Bromley was picked by the "experts" to be a 5th rounder, that doesn't mean that's where teams had him.   Hes pegged by Mel Kiper to be a 5th round pick based on what Kiper saw on the field.  He didn't interview him or speak to his coaches.  The Giants front office did and presumably got to know the kid.  Leadership and character go a long way in this sport.  Maybe the Giants had a chance to trade back, maybe they didn't, but just cause you want to trade back, doesn't mean you can.  A team has to be willing to give up proper value.  And you have no idea where other teams had Bromley.  I defer to the front office in most draft related issues, the guys who scouted, went to the combine, watched hours of film, and talked with the prospects and their coaches.  They may just have a little bit more knowledge about this stuff than anyone here. 

lweight
lweight

Everyone is crucifying Reese for not trading back in the deepest draft in years, but consider this: *everybody* knew it was a deep draft, so there were probably more teams wanting to trade back than teams wanting to trade up. It takes 2 teams to make a trade - who's to say that Reese didn't try to trade back but couldn't find a willing partner? Or maybe the supply vs. demand simply depressed the going rate for moving up such that it wasn't worth it to him. I agree that some of his picks seem like reaches, but we really have no idea how the team ranked the available players or what his other options might or might not have been. 

cj1786
cj1786

Do we know for sure that Hill's latest failed test was marijuana related?  People always bring that up when they mention his multiple failed drug tests in the past but one of those failed tests was for adderall, not weed. 

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

Mr.F--

the Facts are: 

REESE & ROSS are SUB-PAR at DRAFTing !!!

REESE & ROSS use there OWN Grading SYSTEM,

that has PROVEN to be a FAILURE....

The DEPLETED ROSTER is ALL the Proof you need.....

the OLD NYG's Built from with-in.....

NOW,

MR.F-- wants them to DRAFT 3 Starters,

in the FIRST 3 rounds.....

And it " TOO RISKY to TRADE BACK for VALUE "

but,

it's not to " RISKY "

to play your $20Million FRANCHISE QB,

in the LAST GAME of a Season, that Started 0-6,

behind a O-Line that has 3rd Stringers in it.... 

what a JOKE....

jaymanjay
jaymanjay

John,

We have heard the same argument about the Giants personal draft board and on and on and on. You mention what first hand research have fan critics done, but this is really not the point.

The point is you actually should not simply base your selections within your own bubble especially if other teams are impacted by outside forces ala manziel. You have to pay attention to what is going out side the scouting room in order to accurately value players and not waste assets simply because you like a guy. Personal as well market evaluation are both important.

Taking bromley in the 3rd when you could get him later even if he is 3rd round talent. Means you are wasting assets on a player you could have paid a lot less money. Money that could have been used to bring a guy back like tuck who the Giants low balled. Operating within a bubble is the problem no one is saying they should base selections on fan opinions. I'm simply saying they should recognize better what is going on around them when negotiating the draft. Even bromley was surprised he was selected that early.

drewc
drewc

@lweight  I would agree with you if there was only few trades made during the draft but that wasn't the case so I don't buy it.  

SNYGiants
SNYGiants moderator

@cj1786  No one knows for sure, but during the incident involving his arrest for child support in January, police detected "a strong marijuana smell" inside his vehicle. So it's assumed. But not confirmed. Either way, its a failed test of some sort

spider43
spider43

@cj1786  ....  There are two different drug policies. One falls under the category of Banned Substances/PED's/Steroids use.  Adderall falls under that category because of it's steroidal qualities.  The other category of banned substances are those of Substance Abuse drugs, such as marijuana, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines. Hill was suspended once for PED use (Adderall), and once already for Substance abuse (I believe it was marijuana).  This third failure would actually be his 2nd offense under the Substance Abuse policy. As a 2nd offense, I think he will be suspended either 8 games or the entire season. A 3rd offense I believe may get him banned indefinitely. Each offense is subject to appeal.

Lyle M. Weiser
Lyle M. Weiser

@Skookaloop  

You are totally correct!!!! Reese is over his head as a GM. As soon as Accorsi's players have diminished, so have the Giants' drafts. How many premium picks have they missed on in the past few years. Take a look at the quality franchises. The 49ers, Seahawks, Ravens and Bengals. They don't nearly miss as many as Reese and Ross do. Just look at the aforementioned successes over the past few years! 

Yes, Reese and his scouting department draft boy scouts and Wonderlich achievers before football players. Their picks have been subpar since Reese has taken over from Accorsi.

And it is no different for the recent draft. Let's see who gets into the Pro Bowl first and more often: Aaron Donald or Beckham Jr?

Look back on past drafts and there are other examples of poor selections when the obvious selections (by most NFL GMs) flourish in the NFL. Remember when Aaron Ross was selected in the 07 draft over OT Joe Staley. All of the Giant fans cried for Staley. But Reese maintained that A-Ross was higher on his board. That was Reese's first draft as a GM. Well how did that work out? It has gone downhill from there.


Do the fans know more? Sometimes they do (even though teams spend millions on scouting college players - maybe there's too much info and cognitive dissonance after awhile. I don't know.) All I do know is that I believe that some of us collectively on this board could probably draft better than Reese (and I'm not kidding).

cj1786
cj1786

@jaymanjay You are completely missing the point.  Why do you think Bromely could have gotten him later?  You are simply basing this on where some talking heads and mock drafts had him pegged.  You have no idea if he actually would have lasted much longer.  And that is John's point here. 


All teams do what the Giants do, they do their own evaluations and draft who they like, and they do not advertise who they like or do not like.  All the garbage and rumors you here about who likes what players going into the draft is non-sense.  You speak of these 'outside forces' like the are real.  They are not.  Mock drafts and Mel Kiper are not real.  They have no bearing on what actually happens in the draft.  An NFL team cannot look at the internet and a bunch of mock drafts and use that to decide when they will pick a guy they like. 

spider43
spider43

@drewc.... I tend to agree with you. There seemed to be a fair number of trades, so it just tells me that Reese was basically unwilling to "risk" doing anything that would cause him to lose a player he was in love with.

edb7777
edb7777

@Lyle M. Weiser @SkookaloopThose fans crucifying Reese for the Ross pick were also probably saying Jason Pierre WHO?  Reese likes a guy he takes him.  There are NO fans on this board or any other that would do a better job.  Fans wanted Kenny Britt over Hakeem Nicks too but that would have resulted in one less super bowl.  Based on your logic Mel Kiper should just assign players to teams based on on a fan vote.

drewc
drewc

@cj1786 @jaymanjay Someone told Bromley that he was probably a 5th Rounder and it was most likely his agent who would have knowledge of what teams are thinking.  So yes he would of been available.  You can make fun of the so called experts all you want but they do a lot of research, watch film, and talk to personnel people in the NFL, college coaches...etc.  This is a lot of the same things that NFL teams do.  In a lot of cases they are former scouts, GMs, coaches that know what they are talking about.  So yes what these people think is accurate and "real"  

jaymanjay
jaymanjay

No one is arguing that they should look at fan sites or media. That's foolish. It's called negotiating the draft. Example: browns did not take manziel with there first pick they waited traded back into the first and selected him later saving them a bunch of money in the process. Reese just doesn't show good feel for things like that.

Skookaloop
Skookaloop

@edb7777 @Lyle M. Weiser @Skookaloop  

JPP is a BUST.....

JPP was NEVER a 1stRound, 15th Pick.....

WR Nicks started Off-Good,

but how did that END ???


Lyle M. Weiser
Lyle M. Weiser

@Matthew Cohen @drewc @cj1786 @jaymanjay  

But Matt, some teams like the 49ers, Ravens, Seahawks, Bengals and Panthers have much better scouting departments than the Giants. They move up/or down to obtain the players they desire.

Had Beckham Jr. been drafted before the Giants selected would Reese have stated that Beckham was the highest on his board. Remember 2012 when TB traded up and stepped in front of the Giants who were stung (by the pick of RB Doug Martin - who they wanted desperately); Reese panicked and drafted Wilson. That's really poor maneuvering. Similarly, in Reese's 1st draft in 2007, Revis was obviously the best CB in the draft, but Reese didn't go and get him; instead the Jets did (as they traded up). And the Giants took the 3rd CB (and a poor choice) in Aaron Ross.

It just says that Reese and his scouting department do not even back their own convictions on college talent.


Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@drewc @cj1786@jaymanjayNo, it isn't.  It's a lot of fun for us as fans.  But there really isn't much reality to it.  The teams each have 10 times or more resources dedicated to this than the draftniks.  Also, they have access to their coaching staff and have a much better understanding of how the coaches would actually use or not use a player with a particular skill set.

Michael Frias
Michael Frias

@drewc @Michael Frias Possibly.  Also there's a possibility that they saw something in him that other teams didn't see.  Or there was rumblings that some team was going to grab him sooner than the 4th or 5th.  Who knows?  I sure don't.

I spite of Reese's past few drafts, I still like to give the guys in the "war room" the benefit of the doubt over the so called "experts". 

drewc
drewc

@Michael Frias  I would be more interested in seeing how many of their mock 1st rounders were selected in the 1st round.  I would imagine it's pretty high so to totally disregard their knowledge is also "foolish".  The main question is do the Giants front office have a grasp of how the rest of the league values players in the draft or do they even care? I have no opinion on Bromley and maybe he will be good but that's  not the point.  The point is that most had him pegged as a 5th rounder(including the player) and the Giants selected him in the 3rd round.  So did the Giants miss an opportunity to get another quality player or acquire another pick because they misread the thinking of the rest of the league?

Michael Frias
Michael Frias

@drewc @cj1786@jaymanjay In the 1st round, Kiper getting 5 out of 32, McShay getting 4 out of 32, and Mayock getting 4 out of 32, is hardly "accurate".


No one knows what happened on Draft Day.  Maybe there was no one to deal with when they wanted to move back.  Maybe there was grumblings that Bromley was going early 4th round.  To question one draft pick 2 weeks after the draft is a little on the foolish side, no?  Can we at least see the guy practice once or twice, let a lone play a couple of preseason downs before we see if he was worth a 3rd round selection/money?


Matthew Cohen
Matthew Cohen

@jaymanjay It's a lot easier to predict where a first round QB will go than a DT in the 3rd round.  Most teams won't draft a first round QB no matter what whereas almost every team could use another DT for their rotation if they think that he can rush the passer.  The situations are simply not comparable.